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The Queen's Dress 3 by Glimja The Queen's Dress 3 by Glimja
This dress is
the best formal court suit of the queen in the early Joseon Dynasty,
about 15C~17C.

In early Joseon,
Korean royal family usually received formal suits from Ming (China Kingdom).
So the formal clothes were very similar to China clothes culture
and one rank below a Ming Empress.
(For example, there are 9 oriental phoenixes in china crown, but 7 phoenixes in Korea's)

They gradually became to Korean native traditional style.


Copyright ⓒ 2013 by Glimja All right reserved


You can find 2018 new version Hanbok Story here ::

fav.me/dc0wnnj
















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:iconyensidtim:
YensidTim Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2017
I think the attire is a bit problematic. Chinese Diyi and Korean Jeokui had always been cross-collar. This attire doesnt look like cross-collar. Do you think you might've gotten that part wrong?
Reply
:iconyensidtim:
YensidTim Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2017
Also, wasn't the early Jeokui the exact shape as late Jeokui of Daehan? From what I had learned, late Joseon Jeokui looked exactly like the original Ming Jeokui except for the headdress. And they borrowed that from early Joseon since Ming was already gone by that time. So I don't think this was quite accurate.
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:iconglimja:
Glimja Featured By Owner Mar 26, 2017  Professional General Artist
East Asian clothes like Chinese and Korean usually have cross-collar, but there're many other collar designs, too.
I think this samples will help you :: 
www.cha.go.kr/unisearch/images…
www.chungjanggong.or.kr/Upfile…

And Chinese cultural area has many kinds of 
Jeokui,
and each country/region transform them according to their own dress culture.
I also want you refer to this image ::
www.qiaoxun.org/upload_files/a…
This is Chinese 
Jeokui, Korean is not exact same as it,
but early Joseon Jeokui is similar to the bottom, and late Daehan Jeokui is similar to the upper.
It is because Korea had been a kingdom like the dukedom of China (Joseon),
but eventually became like the independent Kingdom (Daehan).

Well it'a little confusing,
China cultural area is very different from western's.
You'd better to understand the class of Jeokui became the higher level ^^
Reply
:iconyensidtim:
YensidTim Featured By Owner Edited Mar 26, 2017
Thank you for your answer!
But I'm still not quite convinced. The collars you showed me are square-collared, which definitely existed in China, Korea, and Japan, but the picture you drew wasn't square-collared.

I'm assuming that pre-Joseon (Goryeo, Silla, etc) had Jeokui the same as the Chinese Diyi on top. If I remember correctly, the bottom Diyi was for women of lower rank (below Imperial bloodlines) to wear. So does this mean Joseon chose a lower-ranked Jeokui to wear compared to Ming, despite Goryeo and Silla wearing the upper Jeokui?

Also, the bottom Diyi of Ming China was exclusively for Imperial weddings. Why was it used for daily ceremonies in Korea? Shouldn't it have been for royal weddings instead?

If possible, can you give me the artifacts or historical records that show that early Joseon wore this kind of Jeokui? Because I'm very skeptical about the collar and the headdress (Please don't take this the wrong way, I just want to make sure and learn more).
Reply
:iconglimja:
Glimja Featured By Owner Edited Mar 26, 2017  Professional General Artist
1.
All of early Joseon Jeokui, also named "Daesam(大衫)", were were destroyed during the war between Japan (1592~1598)
So we are just be able to guess what it looked like based on records of Korea, China, and other countries of East Asia.
You can see some reconstructions on this site ::
blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?bl…


2.
I referred to these images when I drew the illust ::
postfiles5.naver.net/data41/20…
mblogthumb2.phinf.naver.net/da…

But now I think this image is more similar to early Joseon's ::
postfiles7.naver.net/20160830_…
just my guess ^^ as I said, we don't know what is exact composition of early Jeokui.


3.
Silla didn't have Jeokui.
There are five steps of Jeokui's change in Korea.
- the late Goryeo
- the early Joseon
- the middle Joseon
- the middle~late Joseon
- Daehan

This Jeokui of the late Goryeo ~ before the early Joseon ::
cfile6.uf.tistory.com/image/23…
was not based on Ming's - it is Song's
(even though we received this from Ming's empress)

The Jeokui from early Joseon was not Jeokui strictly speaking. It is Daesam, as I said.
But we just call it Jeokui, cuz it followed the system of Chinese Ming Jeokui - for lower rank of royal family.


4. 
No this was not for daily life.
It was worn for royal wedding or coronation, too.


5.
same as 1. and 2.


I wish you would be good at Korean.
I drew the Jeokui system more detailedly in my art book,
glimja.deviantart.com/journal/…
But this is written in Korean, and I don't reveal it online TT
Reply
:iconyensidtim:
YensidTim Featured By Owner Edited Mar 27, 2017
Thank you for answering. It's great appreciated.

1. I wish I can read the records of Korea and China on this, because I don't think the collar should be like that. Imagine, Goryeo Jeokui was cross-collar, but then early Joseon Jeokui became a completely new and never-seen-before collar with buttons, then mid and late Joseon reverted back to cross-collar. Doesn't really make sense. I believe that early Joseon collar is still cross-collar, the same as mid-Joseon, and the only difference is the headdress.

2. Unfortunately, I cannot access the first link. It's restricted webpage. But as for the 2nd pic, I want to also add about the inaccuracy of this reconstruction. The crown headdress seems to be trying to based off of Ming, but the mistake is that that crown is derived from Opera costumes, which is an exaggerated or simplified version of the original. I think that the most accurate version of early Joseon Jeokui should be the pictures of the Kdrama in this link, which is a mixture of Goryeo's headdress and mid-Joseon's Jeokui: blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?bl…
or like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fengguan…

3. I see. But then again, Song and Ming Diyi are pretty similar aside from some differences.

Even if I couldn't read your artbook, thank you so much for the information anyway :D It was your art of Hanbok that makes me understand about it more. Thank you. ^-^
Reply
:iconglimja:
Glimja Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2017  Professional General Artist
Ok than I give you another site link :
blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?bl…
Can you check it? the third pic with white collar.
But as I said before, now I think it's not an 
exact image of early Jeokui (Daesam).
Maybe Daesam was more similar to this (and the crown with seven birds) :
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/5…

Song and Ming's Jeokui was probably alike,
but Joseon's royal clothing system was based on Ming's, not Song's.
I think It was cuz China was under control of Mongolian people (Yuan dynasty).
China of Song had not enough power to carry out cultural exchange with Korea
and after establishing Joseon, and Ming, corrected their each system of culture like clothing.
So I guess first we received Song's Jeokui from Ming empress - like Goryeo's -  they just assumed its class or design,
and the second time that we received Daesam - early Joseon's, their Jeokui rank was established.

I hope this explanation will help you ^^
Reply
:iconyensidtim:
YensidTim Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2017
Thank you for the answer. It helps me a lot, thank you!

Yea, I was thinking that Daesame would've looked like that instead. That attire is one rank below the blue-colored Diyi,  and assuming that Joseon's position was lower than Ming, it would make sense for the highest level of attire of Joseon would be the Daesam based on that.

Thank you for your intellects. The reason why I'm asking you all this is aside from my deep interest in Sinospheric fashion, I also want to try to understand my country's ancient fashion better (Vietnam, since ancient Vietnam also had the same Diyi/Jeokui system called Vi Dich. However, no image or artifact remained from those, so finding clues from Song Ming and Goryeo Joseon will help me a lot. Thank you once again. :D (Big Grin) 
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(1 Reply)
:iconfabi2011:
fabi2011 Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013
beautiful!
Reply
:iconglimja:
Glimja Featured By Owner Nov 25, 2013  Professional General Artist
Thank you, dear~ !! ♡♡
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